Frostgrave rules discussion

[Mike]

So read the book and time for catch up.
Page 32 group activation -
understand that one

Page 34 a spell is not a movement action. A model cannot involuntary leave either pushed or by spell and stops at edge.
So the main words there are involuntary and move action. So if voluntary you can leave teleport/leap? But it states if a model chooses to leave the board. Can the spell caster choose for you?

Page 35 jump faq or house rule
You must move in a straight line the equivalent distance you want to jump prior to jumping.
It does not state level so can a climbing model moving 2 then jump a 2 gap or does the model have to move 2 level then climbs the 2 then jump 2. If no pre movement can only jump 1.
Cinematic climb 2 for momentum then leap 2?

Page 35 combat clarification.
Weapons that effect damage have mods applied after working out initial roles? As per book you see who wins then staff effect applied after for damage. So +2 damage Xbow example. With no other mods you roll 12 opponent rolls 13 no hit so no damage so no add +2.

For Simon critical hits already in rule book auto hit page 38

Page 40 intervening terrain confirmation
If shooter higher up and can see head to base all of the target then no intervening?
Only if shooter and target on same level and or terrain blocks target model in some way.

Page 40 wounded
This is optional do we play or not. Same as critical.

[Tom]

Page 34 a spell is not a movement action. A model cannot involuntary leave either pushed or by spell and stops at edge.
So the main words there are involuntary and move action. So if voluntary you can leave teleport/leap? But it states if a model chooses to leave the board. Can the spell caster choose for you?

FAQ says no teleporting off the table, yes leaping off the table.

Page 35 jump faq or house rule
You must move in a straight line the equivalent distance you want to jump prior to jumping.
It does not state level so can a climbing model moving 2 then jump a 2 gap or does the model have to move 2 level then climbs the 2 then jump 2. If no pre movement can only jump 1.
Cinematic climb 2 for momentum then leap 2?

It does refer to the movement before hand being a run up and you'd be hard pressed to call any kind of climbing a run up. I'd say any leap from a climb was classed as a standing jump.

Page 35 combat clarification.
Weapons that effect damage have mods applied after working out initial roles? As per book you see who wins then staff effect applied after for damage. So +2 damage Xbow example. With no other mods you roll 12 opponent rolls 13 no hit so no damage so no add +2.

Correct, (non-magic) weapons only affect damage, not combat rolls.

Page 40 intervening terrain confirmation
If shooter higher up and can see head to base all of the target then no intervening?
Only if shooter and target on same level and or terrain blocks target model in some way.

'per piece of intervening terrain' is indeed a bit wooly. We've been playing as any non-adjacent bit of terrain that blocks any part of view of the model (adjacent terrain being cover).

Page 40 wounded
This is optional do we play or not. Same as critical.

See the standard rules thread!

[Darkson (Simon)]

I'd be happy just to go with these (which are at least written out so everyone can have a copy): http://www.bad-karma.net/wp-content/upl ... s_v1.2.pdf rather than have a load of houserules on the forum (though I would add Tom's variable turns to this list).

[Tom]

I don't particularly like or see a need for half his house rules to be honest. I'd rather mould our campaign slowly around us than import his fixes for things I don't think are issues.

[Darkson (Simon)]

My concern is that there are obvious flaws in the game for anything more than one-off battles or between gangs that have only played 1 or 2 games, and if we play as is it's going to turn players off before the game has a chance to grow. In just the first game you gained 2(? More?) levels on Dave, and made more money etc. A couple more games like that and it makes it almost impossible for a new gang to start.
If we go the other way, and have lots of gangs each, and play ones that are roughly equal to each other, the games will be fairer, but then we lose the important part of the smaller games for me, the "story" of the gang getting better.

For example, I do agree with him on Exp for killing (why buff a Knight's sword when you get more for just Bolting the enemy with a Wizard), on the shops being like Tesco (anything you want whenever you want it), and that gaining treasure left on the field if you wipe the opposing side out makes that a better option (which the turn limit is bought in to stop).

Which bits do you disagree with?

[Tom]

Don't like fixed game end as it causes you to do things you otherwise wouldn't if the enemy would have a chance to fight back next turn.

Not keen on messing with XP unless we see an issue. No matter how many levels you gain you can still only improve each thing once per game, so a wizard getting lots of XP is more versatile but not greatly more powered. And to get kill XP a wizard has to put himself at risk of return fire.

I have no problem with free purchase of goods for this open campaign. If running something more structured then it could be fun but for now I just see it as more complication for little gain.

Same with the out of game structuring he creates. I just see it as more rules for little benefit.

That and I think meddling with the base rules so much so soon is more likely to put people off playing. Currently we've put forward one optional house rule (variable game length) and dropped half of an optional rule from the book (criticals). I think that's plenty of changes to be going on with. Currently no band has more than a single game under their belt! Let's just play some games and have some fun for now

[Mike]

Played twice now and have a greater understanding of rules.

Agree with Tom, just 2 changes, critical double damage out and game length in.

Ok so games between high/low gangs could be a bit one sided but if we have 5 turns plus atleast the higher does not have all night to kill everyone.

After game not done yet so unsure but if we change it are we not just playing mordheim on ice.

With treasure left on the board after a wipe out - two thoughts. Why did I let Tom kill my whole gang in 5+ turns so he could get all the treasure and how much longer would the game have gone on after mine are all dead so Toms could drag the treasure off before a bloody great ice giant stomps them.

[Darkson (Simon)]

Don't like fixed game end as it causes you to do things you otherwise wouldn't if the enemy would have a chance to fight back next turn.

I already said I liked your variable turn version (and I'd suggested something similar to him before for the exact same reason).

Changing my wizard, going offensive spells, no point in putting myself behind the curve by taking buff spells. Will probably end up with a Necromancer or Elementalist (yawn) for that reason.

[Darkson (Simon)]

Joe the author is in the process of making an official errata/FAQ (think he underestimated the number of questions that would be asked ), but in the meantime:

Magical Attacks are subject to the movement penalty (although I forget to apply it in almost every game I play).

Magical Weapons count as a soldier's one item AND replaces the mundane version he was carrying - so he still only has the same weapon load-out as before.

Killing unaligned creatures does not generate experience. If it is a Demon or Construct under the control of another warband, it counts as a soldier for experience purposes. (although see Thaw of the Lich Lord, where scenarios tend to handle this differently).

[Ladril Caledor]

Hey guys, are we playing with wandering creatures?

EDIT: Just found another thread 'Standard Club Rules' and it seems like we are! Good to hear, as I was planning to run a Witch with animal control and summon animal, as well as a few hounds in the warband itself. Hopefully I can chaff opponents up with animals then hit them from afar with arrows and Bone Darts. Seems like a suitably cowardly strategy for my Elf warband...

EDIT 2: I also like the variable turn proposal